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Thread: Chapter 891: Believing in me

  1. #361

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    ......So?
    I'm pretty sure you're just being willfully obtuse at this point, arguing for the sake of arguing.
    Nope.
    So what if his goal is to get stronger?
    There's no "so what". It is what I'm claiming, at this point getting stronger is th prmary goal for Luffy's battle with Katakuri and not stopping him from attacking the crew.
    What do you mean that getting overwhelmed is not an argument, when Luffy left the mirror world EXPLICITLY because he was about to exit Gear 4 and be overwhelmed?
    I meant that getting overwhelmed wouldn't be an argument to stop the fight if Luffy thought Katakuri would go for his crew. He would keep him occupied all the time. That's just how Luffy is. If he left him, it means he didn't consider this possibility.

    K. Kira made a great post and point about Luffy always instinctively taking on the biggest threat to the crew, and I see you attempting to counter that point, but...how? Why?
    Luffy usually targets the biggest threat or the one most responsible for the suffering of his friends (crewmates or othrwise), who usually turns out to b the strongest of th bunch. I'm not arguing it. This time he also fights the strongest person (sans BM), that is correct too. But at this point his primary goal is getting stronger. That's all I'm arguing.
    One of the most important skills in a healthy discussion is the ability to read/listen, say "Hmm. Good point/Interesting point!" and move on to the next topic. So what exactly are you arguing here?
    Actually discussing what's at hand and not trying to lecture the other person also happens to do great to discussions. If I disagree with someone and I believe I can add something new or clarify what I meant previously I'll usually do just that. Forgive me if having a different views at a comic book offends you.
    All hail Machvise-sama, Arlong Park Character Tournament 2016 Champion!

  2. #362

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Koliber View Post
    Actually discussing what's at hand and not trying to lecture the other person also happens to do great to discussions. If I disagree with someone and I believe I can add something new or clarify what I meant previously I'll usually do just that. Forgive me if having a different views at a comic book offends you.
    No, it doesn't. I see what you're saying. I do think that avoiding getting overwhelmed (by exiting mirror world) could help him continue the fight so that Katakuri doesn't have the opportunity to go after the crew, but that's just my thoughts on it.

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    On second thought, I'm gonna take my own advice and say: Hmm. That's a good point!

    See, now that I'm thinking about it more: It was INCREDIBLY DUMB for Oda to have Luffy imitate Ichigo "Waaaah! That's not the way I wanted to win!" Kurosaki. His stated goal was to stop Katakuri from attacking his crew. Yet, instead of going with a winning strategy--forcing Kata to overuse his haki--he instead chooses the "But m'pride!" approach. Like, who gives a crap if Katakuri runs out of Haki and can't troll his way out of everything?! Punch him in his smug teeth and keep it moving.

    That would be like if Luffy told Nami not to help him against Cracker, or if he decided he wasn't gonna use the barrel of water against Crocodile cause it wouldn't be fair. I don't like the dumb Fair-Fight Luffy, calling out attacks to a FREAKING ADMIRAL because he can't see or refusing to disable Katakuri's future sight because then he wouldn't be at his best. He deserved his subsequent ass-whooping back then, and he deserves it now >:-(

  3. #363

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    No, it doesn't. I see what you're saying. I do think that avoiding getting overwhelmed (by exiting mirror world) could help him continue the fight so that Katakuri doesn't have the opportunity to go after the crew, but that's just my thoughts on it.

    ......
    ......
    ......
    ......
    ......
    ......

    On second thought, I'm gonna take my own advice and say: Hmm. That's a good point!

    See, now that I'm thinking about it more: It was INCREDIBLY DUMB for Oda to have Luffy imitate Ichigo "Waaaah! That's not the way I wanted to win!" Kurosaki. His stated goal was to stop Katakuri from attacking his crew. Yet, instead of going with a winning strategy--forcing Kata to overuse his haki--he instead chooses the "But m'pride!" approach. Like, who gives a crap if Katakuri runs out of Haki and can't troll his way out of everything?! Punch him in his smug teeth and keep it moving.

    That would be like if Luffy told Nami not to help him against Cracker, or if he decided he wasn't gonna use the barrel of water against Crocodile cause it wouldn't be fair. I don't like the dumb Fair-Fight Luffy, calling out attacks to a FREAKING ADMIRAL because he can't see or refusing to disable Katakuri's future sight because then he wouldn't be at his best. He deserved his subsequent ass-whooping back then, and he deserves it now >:-(
    Are you saying Luffy shouldn't use this opportunity to hone his Kenbunshoku Haki that will benefit him more in future fights?
    Spoiler:
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  4. #364
    Discovered Stowaway No swords style best style's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Yeah, I mean, Luffy's pretty much forcing Katakuri to train him at this point, since he can take as many time-outs as he he wants with Brûlée as a hostage and Mochi Man can't seem to do anything but wait for his return. Plus, he can't return to the Sunny easily, so he might as well take the convenient opportunity to get stronger for the comming trials (and personally, I think there's something specific planned for future sight in Wano).

  5. #365

    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    You guys sound like you've forgotten the number of times Luffy has said he has faith in his crew. He knows he doesn't have to always come to their rescue. Him ignoring the biggest threat isn't out of character. Besides, they have a plan and he's sticking to it. He doesn't have a way to get to them anyway. He destroyed the access point to protect them from harm.

  6. #366
    Discovered Stowaway K. Kira XXIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 891: Believing in me

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    Sounds like a perfectly viable option, however there are still a number of questions (I'm not saying the idea of permanent access in Brulee's house answers them either, mind). Such as when did she do it ?
    Are you asking about when did Brulee setup the house with the mirror? It was there when Chopper and Carrot were about to get cooked.

    And yes, at this stage the "house = permanent door" notion is but a theory. I'd even go as far as to point that if it really is one, or if there are other permanent doors, then why the hell did Katakuri not use said door(s) to exit the mirror world after Luffy escaped ?
    He could have, but if there is only one portal, then he would exit the Mirror World in Whole Cake Island, which would put him far away from Cacao Island. There is another reason which I'll go into further down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koliber View Post
    Yet he wasn't afraid of letting him go out of his sight and leaving him unattended, and he's willingly making it harder for himself.
    The context is important. To draw a comparison, when Luffy ran out of haki during gear fourth and Gatz picked him up he said something along the lines of: "I could evade Mingo for 10 minutes, but he might start targeting the citizens". Therefore, if Luffy and Mango were fighting in the Mirror World, Luffy had the confidence to dodge him for the entire time without the assistance of Brulee. Against Katakuri, the panels and what Luffy was saying all led to him realizing that he was about to get defeated. So, Brulee provided a quick way out, but he would still need to make sure Katakuri does not go against the crew afterwards.

    Regardless if Luffy exited the Mirror World, any place he comes out from is enemy territory. The fact that Luffy was sighted at many different islands, dictates that he went back inside the Mirror World. Katakuri was seen annoyed before Luffy told Brulee that he wanted to beat her big brother. Which makes it seem that throughout the entire time Luffy was recovering, he had been chased either by Big Mom's troops or Katakuri.

    Getting stronger is the main goal now in that fight. When he first started the fight, Katakuri was on-board the Sunny and the situation was rather dire. But then he stopped him, the mirrors were broken etc. Plus he had Brulee secured by himself.
    I still don't see why it is important if it is now the main goal. Why can the two goals not coexist? Also going by direct messages, last chapter Luffy told Katakuri that: "they think I'll beat you" so he is still fighting for the crew. He could just have said: "I want to defeat you because I want to get stronger".

    Do you really think Luffy would leave the mirrorworld if he was afraid of Katakuri going after SHs? Being immensly overwhelmed is no-argument in a sittuaton like this, not for Luffy.
    As I said above, yes. He was about to get defeated and he knew it. Luffy has grown smarter and knows when to retreat to fight another day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koliber View Post
    There's no "so what". It is what I'm claiming, at this point getting stronger is th prmary goal for Luffy's battle with Katakuri and not stopping him from attacking the crew.
    I am saying it is both.

    I meant that getting overwhelmed wouldn't be an argument to stop the fight if Luffy thought Katakuri would go for his crew. He would keep him occupied all the time. That's just how Luffy is. If he left him, it means he didn't consider this possibility.
    And given the context, that is exactly what happened. Luffy could stay still for long as he went from island to island. All the while avoiding Katakuri in the mirror world. So just by being in that situation Luffy was keeping both Katakuri and many of Big Mom's troops occupied. That's why when Big Mom was after him he felt relief because it meant that his crew was most likely safe.

    Anyways, this is getting to be long post, I would post the pages to go along my post, but that's too much work. I hope you trust my interpretation of the different scenarios.


    Luffy usually targets the biggest threat or the one most responsible for the suffering of his friends (crewmates or othrwise), who usually turns out to b the strongest of th bunch. I'm not arguing it. This time he also fights the strongest person (sans BM), that is correct too. But at this point his primary goal is getting stronger. That's all I'm arguing.[/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post

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