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Thread: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

  1. #12341

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    This entire process, of course, ignores the simple fact that the overwhelming majority of people on Medicaid already work while the remainder largely can't because of childcare or health issues.

    But let's not little things like facts get in the way of the new policy of Work Makes You Free.
    Kentucky most certainly doesn't seem to mind putting their best foot forward on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  2. #12342

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  3. #12343

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Nice backwards flag dipshit.

  4. #12344
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Officials in Hawaii accidentally sent out a "Ballistic missile inbound, take shelter, this is not a drill" message to everyone's phones.

    They retracted the message shortly after, saying it had been a "mistake". Damn, I bet that caused at least a couple people to have a heart attack
    -_- o_o O_O ...Agree to disagree sounds about right. Holy moly.
    I'm such a bad person

  5. #12345

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Trump interrupted a meeting about Pakistan to ask a women "where are you from" and wouldn't accept her answer when she said "New York." He then insisted "the pretty Korean lady" be reassigned to North Korea.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/1/12/...gence-briefing

    You know, on top of the "shithole" remarks and not knowing white people are on wellfare and letting Puerto Rico die and defending Neo-Nazis and "All Mexicans are thieves and rapists" bit that kicked off his campaign.

    Our racist granpa president folks.

  6. #12346

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Trump interrupted a meeting about Pakistan to ask a women "where are you from" and wouldn't accept her answer when she said "New York." He then insisted "the pretty Korean lady" be reassigned to North Korea.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/1/12/...gence-briefing

    You know, on top of the "shithole" remarks and not knowing white people are on wellfare and letting Puerto Rico die and defending Neo-Nazis and "All Mexicans are thieves and rapists" bit that kicked off his campaign.

    Our racist granpa president folks.


    But really I don't get how people fuck this up so easily.

    Ok to ask where person "is from" cases:
    They have an accent.
    Not ok to ask where person "is from" cases: No accent.

    You will note that in both cases what they look like does not factor in! And in fact technically the question involved does not even have to imply origin from outside the US!
    You'd think people would get this simple concept, but man I guess not!

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Also tactful: If you know the last name or in some cases first you can ask something like "Oh (INSERT NAME HERE), what's that from?".
    And again, if you find yourself.... I dunno, never asking this question of white people even when they have interesting surnames? Gosh bud, might be racist.

    NOTE: Unsure if this works differently outside the Northeast in places where almost all white people are centuries back Celtic-English-Germans or whatever, so the question ends up racialized regardless. Might be a regional thing.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    By the way if there was any doubt, the vomit Trump's been spewing on immigrant stuff lately is a definite sign that with so few people left in his inner circle that noted shithead Stephen Miller is definitely shining through. These sort of comments have him written alllll over it.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    This is going to sound very callous, but him calling third world countries "shitholes" isn't going to lose him any votes on the right. It might even gain him some. It fits well into his "anti-pc" "shooting from the hip" "say it like it is" brand, and while the way he said it was certainly horrible, the sentiment of "only allowing the best people in" is precisely what the right wants, and its what most countries (the UK and Canada for example) actually have as their policy (refugees aside).

    What I'm trying to say is that once you cut through the offensive words, he's just saying standard republican policy points, the only people who'll find this "horrifyingly bad" are the left wing people whom would disagree with right-wing policy anyway, and the media that's always looking for the next thing to be outraged at. To the average right winger... this is standard stuff, to be encouraged even.
    You know I hesitated to say this earlier, but since you come off kind of callous about the comment, you should think good and hard about exactly why there are so many Italian-Americans.

  7. #12347

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    You really do end up struggling to find words that haven't been said a thousand times to react to this stuff. Like where is the bottom on this, how much further can one man dig himself down. You can barely keep up with the first five crass or vulgar things that have been said before he does something even shittier. It's like King Ralph if you re-shot the film to remove all heart and empathy and amped up the slobbiness by a dozen.

  8. #12348
    The Mountain That Drinks. Steven D. Teach's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    If anybody was wondering how Japan is translating "shithole", it's "dirty outhouse in the fields."

  9. #12349

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven D. Teach View Post
    If anybody was wondering how Japan is translating "shithole", it's "dirty outhouse in the fields."
    That's about as literal of a translation as you can get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  10. #12350
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    You know I hesitated to say this earlier, but since you come off kind of callous about the comment, you should think good and hard about exactly why there are so many Italian-Americans.
    I hesitated to answer earlier because immigration policy is a very difficult beast to tackle, and I don't want to make any brash normative statements as I'm not 100% clear on the entirety of the US' immigration laws and without a very strong knowledge of US demographics and the state of each economic sector it's hard to make a coherent policy argument.

    That said, the state of the US was completely different back in the day. You can't compare apples and oranges. Furthermore, immigration policy is entirely dependant on what your goal is with respect to your nation's future demographic makeup. I start from the position that, with the exception of countries that *need* high levels of immigration to compensate for other factors (ie. low birthrate in Japan and Germany resulting in excessive open job places), the average nation wants to use immigration mainly to boost its economy, while making as few changes to its societal demographics as possible. You seem to have a different idea of what immigration is for, but since I was speaking from the perspective of Trump's base and the right... I don't think your *purpose* for immigration is the correct test to employ when assessing Trump's words, while mine seems far more in keeping with the right's views.

    Now, as I've stated I don't actually have a comprehensive view of American immigration policy, but if the idea is "lets reduce the number of people", and "lets bring the best people", then Trump saying "lets take less people from shitty countries" will (and has) play well with the right. Because to the right, the "best people", as I perhaps erroneously wrote, are those that are highly educated (1), but also ideologically similar (2). In this respect, european countries play far more into the right's view of american values than any african one. Yes, it's racist, and when Trump says "shitty", he also implies "not-white, ethinically and culturally different, counter to US values". He's playing to his base, he's doing it in his usual "un-pc style", and whether you agree with me or not, I think this won't hurt him, and may even be encouraged from his supporters.

    There's also the fact that I'm fairly sure a large spathe current US policy works on a lottery system rather than a meritocratic basis, and I *know* Trump and his supporters want to get rid of it (to get only the "best" people - read economically beneficial, ideologically similar, english speaking, highly educated).

    One hiccup in this analysis is that Asian countries aren't included here. Chinese people in particular are very ideologically different, so why do they get a free pass? I think you can safely pin that on racism, but perhaps there are other reasons - stereotypes of high performance in education for example - that could underpin the exemption for east-asia.


    Now, question of the week, why are there so many Italo-Americans:

    Loose immigration policy, high number of job and business opportunities in the US, terrorism wasn't an issue, you barely had a welfare state so increase population wouldn't have changed much for the economy, america was still very much lacking a strong sense of american identity and was more of a mixture of misfit immigrants from all around, and the fledgling nation of Italy wasn't prospering economically and many italians wanted out. The rich and exciting US was the logical choice.

    That said, was italian immigration actually... good for the US?

    We exported the mafia, we exported our very sexist meditteranean attitudes towards women, we exported corruption, and our distinctly different social behaviour made italo-americans the target of racist abuse. Our immigration caused heightened racial tensions and increase in crime levels, at least for the first few generations. I guess we did export our excellent food though, so that's a point in favour of the italian wave of immigrants. I'm sure Italian immigration was good for you in the long run, but in the short run... well. I don't know, perhaps you have a different view?


    Either way, the US now and the US back then are very different, I don't think the comparison really holds much water, as much as I hear the "US was built on immigration" argument, I've never found it particularly convincing, especially given how much geo-politics and overall world population have changed since then.
    Last edited by AfroSamurai; January 13th, 2018 at 04:49 PM.
    -_- o_o O_O ...Agree to disagree sounds about right. Holy moly.
    I'm such a bad person

  11. #12351

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    If the false nuclear alarm happened during Fox and Friends, there'd now be a nuclear war. Luckily, Trump was golfing.

  12. #12352

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Trey Gowdy has resigned from the Ethics Committee citing work overload. Apparently the irony was too much to bear.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  13. #12353

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    That said, the state of the US was completely different back in the day.
    Immigration being less strict for a time you mean?

    Furthermore, immigration policy is entirely dependant on what your goal is with respect to your nation's future demographic makeup.
    There is basically no way this isn't readable as racism. Oops, a nazi again!
    I start from the position that, with the exception of countries that *need* high levels of immigration to compensate for other factors (ie. low birthrate in Japan and Germany resulting in excessive open job places),


    Hint hint, why doesn't the US have the same demographic issues most other first world countries do?
    the average nation wants to use immigration mainly to boost its economy, while making as few changes to its societal demographics as possible.
    The United States isn't a crusted over nation-state terrified of having some specific ethnic culture vanish.
    Oh by the way once more this is a billion times more true now than when Italians were coming a century ago, glad you've brought up the differences.

    You seem to have a different idea of what immigration is for, but since I was speaking from the perspective of Trump's base and the right... I don't think your *purpose* for immigration is the correct test to employ when assessing Trump's words, while mine seems far more in keeping with the right's views.


    Trump's base on the issue of immigration is outright racist nativism. The traditional mainline American right wing view is actually not hardline about much except illegal issues. We didn't have this kind of Euro style bullshit as mainstream for decades until the alt-right.

    There's also the fact that I'm fairly sure a large spathe current US policy works on a lottery system rather than


    Except not.


    Loose immigration policy, high number of job and business opportunities in the US, terrorism wasn't an issue,
    Except for the whole bomb throwing anarchist movement, which had lots of adherents among Catholic immigrants, and resulted in at least one dead president by the turn of the century.

    america was still very much lacking a strong sense of american identity
    This is outright false, PARTICULARLY when it comes to New England, which had a stronger sense of unique identity than it even does now.

    and was more of a mixture of misfit immigrants from all around,
    It was heavily Northern European Protestant, and heavily British Isles at that. Irish people were exotic.
    What on earth are you talking about lol.

    and the fledgling nation of Italy wasn't prospering economically and many italians wanted out. The rich and exciting US was the logical choice.
    A "shithole" if you will.

    That said, was italian immigration actually... good for the US?
    We exported the mafia, we exported our very sexist meditteranean attitudes towards women, we exported corruption, and our distinctly different social behaviour made italo-americans the target of racist abuse.


    The English exported religious extremism, very sexist attitudes toward women, civil war grudges from back home, and had a tendency to genociding native people.
    The Scots were even worse, they exported brutal clan warfare and frontier anarchy.
    Don't even get me smarted on the sleazy Dutch businessmen who laid the foundations for the Wolf of Wall Street culture in New Amsterdam, making New York a northern state at best reluctant on fighting the Civil War because slavery was business and all.

    Also lol at the idea that Italians were stand out sexists in 1900.

    Our immigration caused heightened racial tensions and increase in crime levels, at least for the first few generations.


    Every immigrant group that poured into the cruddy cities did/does these things. The Irish were nasty ghetto gangbangers as much as any, and there were Jewish mafia folks too.
    You only don't see this with those rare early immigrant groups that fanned out immediately into farming like the Germans. Though the Scots went into the mountains and were hella violent too.

    Either way, the US now and the US back then are very different,


    In some mirror land where 1900 Europe was a heavily diverse melting pot and today's is a uniform nation-state?

    as much as I hear the "US was built on immigration" argument, I've never found it particularly convincing, especially given how much geo-politics and overall world population have changed since then.


    The US being built on immigrants was an old truth even in 1900. Even the English immigration/colonization was from very different groups with grudges and totally different cultural ideas.
    You had the South being built up from minor nobles with Cavalier sympathies, and the North being built up by Puritans and shit.
    Even these motherfuckers were coming up with elaborate racial nonsense about Normans vs Saxons in hating each-other.


  14. #12354

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3963709/t...michael-wolff/

    Trump makes first public comments since Hawaii false missile alarm panic — to slam Michael Wolff.

    He still hasn't made any comments about Hawaii.

  15. #12355

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    https://globalnews.ca/news/3963709/t...michael-wolff/

    Trump makes first public comments since Hawaii false missile alarm panic — to slam Michael Wolff.

    He still hasn't made any comments about Hawaii.
    Probably still salty over a judge there pissing ton his travel ban.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  16. #12356

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Chelsea Manning wants to primary Ben Cardin in Maryland.

  17. #12357

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    Chelsea Manning wants to primary Ben Cardin in Maryland.
    Sorry, but this is a dumb idea.

    I'm in the camp who is for what she did. More transparency in government is a good thing. She* didn't get anybody killed as her critics like to say, so as far as I'm concerned what she did was important and vital.

    That being said... this is a bad idea... That state has a pretty safe Democrat in the seat and she's going to try to de-seat him? She's polarizing even in progressive circles... the "She's a traitor to her country" thing is going to cause the press to eat her alive... she has no chance of winning in a general, so if she manages to win in a primary, she's basically throwing the race for a Republican.

    She needs to drop out before this primary run becomes a serious thing.

    *The article I cited misgenders and deadnames her, but it was published a few weeks before she came out as Trans, and I can't find another one written after then that talks about that hearing.

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  18. #12358

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    This Fake News Attack on the WSJ is...odd.

    Trump Admin, you do realize the editorials board of the WSJ is one of the last bastions of MSM carrying a torch for you, right?

  19. #12359

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    This Fake News Attack on the WSJ is...odd.

    Trump Admin, you do realize the editorials board of the WSJ is one of the last bastions of MSM carrying a torch for you, right?
    You should know by now Trump plays this game as Oddjob and with friendly fire turned on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  20. #12360

    Default Re: American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed

    http://deadstate.org/the-word-shitho...mps-d-c-hotel/

    the-word-shithole-is-being-projected-on-the-front-of-trumps-d-c-hotel

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